Oh god, or wether 80gsm or 100gsm was in wide use at the time.

I would pay good money for Bongo to spend the next 6 years in Bletchley Park. ;)

Not insignificant to me at all, don't put words into my mouth that i didn't say. However, I don't understand the relevance of it though, with regard to you saying BoB is the same as BoS, which is what we were talking about until your tangent. Care to explain?

And by the 'traditional' method of kills, German pilots were the most successful of BoB by individuals, kill ratios you may well be right. I certainly don't disagree about the contribution of the Poles, but you should also add the Czechs to that as well, since we're talking about performance, and 54 squadron as well, who only fought half the battle as well, and were the top scoring squadron before they were withdrawn from the battle at the start of Sept.

But as interesting as this all is, what's it got to do with Stalingrad, being such a bad theatre?

Then my work is almost done.......

Your sarcastic and cynical responses left me with the impression a serious relevant exchange was not your intention.

Interesting. Care to elaborate further?

Which sarcastic and cynical responses were those?

I disagreed with you that the type of fighting in the air in the BoB is the same in the BoS, due to the huge land battle that was going on underneath and have stated so.

You are the one that went of on a tangent designed to inflame, which i choose to ignore the very obvious intention of, giving you the benefit of doubt, and i am quite willing to keep discussing the issue at hand.

For the record, i would of chosen N Africa, but the decision's 1C's, and they've already made it a long time ago.

If Europe intervenes after the invasion of Poland or even Czech. maybe BOB never happens.After murdering a good majority of his core officers Stalin feels the need to enter into a non aggression pact with Germany. They both attack Poland concurently. Europe takes no action regarding both aggressive invasions. In the late 30's Japan attacks/invades China. The US sides with China and blockades the Japanese homeland. Obstensively triggering the attack on Pearil Harbor. This act leads to profoundly stupid and unnecessary declaration of war against the US by Germany. Up until this point the US politicians could not get the support necessary for war. etc.

The vast majority of flight sims are purchase by the individual who play offline building missions. Both battles were fought by essentially only two combatants, flying short distances attacking/defending grond targets.You have a large city eating up computer resources adding little to game play. Little if any diversity in mission building, monotonous maps, very little variety in aircraft.

Why would you be "inflamed" if I mentioned the Pole's in BOB, I was glad you reminded me of the Czech contribution.

I would much prefer N. Africa, and I tuely beleive it would bring in more revenue for 777?1c so they can eventually get to everyones personal favorite Battle.

Thank you sir.

I agree that most sims are bought by individuals for offline. The one advantage i can think off with Stalingrad, is all it takes is more maps to open up the Eastern front much wider with much more little work on the plane set initially. And as more planes are added, those same maps can still be used, for different times during the war on the eastern front.

I think its a big miss on there part they didn't start with it, no one has ever done it before properly as far as i'm aware, Its interesting and well matched plane sets, and a great variety of mission types and a map/maps that are not to demanding with regard to object limits. Unfortunately, just as 1C told MG what the next 2 sequels were to be after CLOD, I suspect the same applies to 777, hence BoS, and again i suspect its due to domestic expectations. Would definitely like to see them go to N Africa next if things pan out in the future.

It seems we may of both misread each other, no worries.

Agreed.

nah... a fair amount of the work (from what we've been given to read, prior to the management change) is already done, hence BoS

I'd tend to agree with that especially given the time frame.. Personally I am hoping that we all are wowed and we can all get back under one umbrella like we all were 8 years ago..

As far as the OT.. Well when I consider that the IL2 engine is still being stretched .. I'd have to say yes.. I really think that the fullness of the CoD engine will not be realized until PCs catch up to it..

Its a shame,In my opinion the proper business plan and management team could have gleened much more from it, at present. The damage models and grafics were outstanding. The content and features were lacking.

Perhaps thatis also it's biggest flaw.. We look at this from and end result perspective.. but for all we know all the things that get fans of CoD so hooked are the very things inhernetly built into the code that are why it has failed. I don't know a thing about code so .. I cannot even begin to speculate with any real authority ..

look... quite simply, it was a big project with big ideals and time (patience from higher ups) ran out. it was released way earlier than it should have been.

No, it wasn't ready when it should of been.

8 years remember.

That's unfair. Six years maybe. It should have been ready before it was released, and it was released before it was ready too.

and part of the problem, as seen in quote, was impatient children demanding to let all their fireworks off at once.

The work started over 8 years ago, i was standing in front of Oleg(and Luthier) when he announced BOB to the world, big screen, shots of models, bit of a speech, Q and A, that sort of thing.

Over 8 years and 7 million quid, if Oleg had not been pushed and Luthier given the job(poison chalice) we might still be looking at 3D models of Spitfires and being told "2 weeks...be sure".

would you care to provide some links to that effect??

It was at the Birmingham flight sim show 23rd November 2002 i attended, i met a few of my first IL2 sqd there...Puff, Crater and a few others.

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.ph...eg_will_b.html

We've also had the project restart several times in that time period. Also remember that we have reaped the benefits from that early development when later patches from IL-2 was used as a test bed for various programming techniques.

If it wasn't for Oleg pushing the boundaries Il2 1946 would not have been what it is today.

Deciding to scrap the 10 odd years of the original development because it had fundimental limitations which were holding it back must have been a big decision. Most other developers wouldn't have done it.

Concidering the massive changes in development teams and management, it's a testiment to the actual code that Loft could come in and get the massive performance improvements in the short time available to him. The basic code must of been there for him to have optimise it in such a short time. It would be interesting to hear his take on events.

When it all comes down to it, it's the attention to detail that really gets me into a sim like CoD

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/...psdb49723d.jpg

Thank you Skoshi...

Furbs - http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=9836

Yes wolf?

Wouldn't thst be 2004? FB was relesed in 2003, are you sure you're not mistaken, Furbs? I can see him hawking FB in the 2002 show. I remember seeing video clips of him demonstrating FB at some show - though I don't know which one.



*speaking of Ming (since I saw his name mentioned in the attached link in your other post) where the heck has he been?

Yes, at the show Oleg had the stand showing off FB(i had a go) but at lunch time there was a announcement in a side room...bit of a stage with a big screen lots of chairs in front with about a 200 flight simmers waiting with baited breath for Oleg to tell us where he was going after FB.

Luthier did some of translating for Oleg and helped with the Q and A.

Oleg showed us a bit of video and some screen shots of what they had done so far...spitfire cockpit, new weather and clouds...some new features.

Oleg looked very excited about SOW-BOB as it was called, as did everyone who saw the presentation...i know i was.

So yes...23rd November 2002, and it was slated for release in 2006 i think he said, but im not 100% on that.

Is there something more concrete than your so there, Furbs?

All indicators point to '04

I dont know what to say wolf, im only saying what i saw and heard when i was there, the link i posted showed Oleg himself posting he would be there...that's the only flight sim show i went to in Birmingham.

So unless i dreamed the whole thing...

Il speak to Puff and get him to clarify it.

There must be a few others around these forums who were there as well as me.

Understand, Furbs, you're not being doubted, its just that all other documentations point to later before the work started... announcing a 'roadmap' (so to speak) isn't beginning the work.
Read the link I provided earlier, it delivers a fair amount of clarity (in more ways than one)

It was more than a roadmap though, remember the video that came with the 1946 disk?
We were shown most of the stuff in that vid...full cockpit, weather system and clouds and shots of high detailed models, quite a bit of work.

'46 was released in '06 if memory serves correctly though

Thanks, furbs. I didn't realize he had a side room show for BoB/CoD.

What was pretty cool was when Oleg started the Q and A, the first guy to speak said "I dont have a question Oleg, i just want to thank you for making Il2" and everyone just stood up and gave Oleg a round of applause!

:)

I wonder if the same thing would happen with COD?

Do you? do you really wonder? or do you actually wonder how many people that comment will really aggitate?

personally I think if Cod hadn't been binned and further development through BoM etc had continued then yes, absolutely Luthier would have taken big applause in a similar situation.

Guess we will never know then...i was just asking a question Bongo.

So was I, and I'm also 100% sure we will never know, hence the reason I asked my question.

Because i wondered.

I would have furbs

Well ok, I suppose it is evident you do miss the obvious quite often so I will have to accept that.

Ok, to be honest i was wondering if there would of been enough people in the room for it to qualify as a applause.

yes, why wouldn't there be? if Cod was allowed to continue and got further development through sequels it would simply be the best flight sim series ever and for the future, again you seem to miss the obvious.

Never very many people at the new place furbs...atleast here there is the chance of a wreck on turn 3, and so they come and wait :-P

Its gone Bongo, like tears in rain.

Oh so now you figure it out......

Damm that Tree and Falstaff and that other guy, what's his name :grin:

Flubs? Flurbs?.......something like that

I thinking Killroy or something...just kidden ya furbs

Don't worry Slip, you and i have a sense of humor. :)

I guess that's true, I often find myself pissing myself laughing at you.

Awwwwwww...yuk.

Your tears Bongo...your tears.

are you ok?

Fine thanks Bongo, actually pretty dam good at the moment.
Really good xmas, family all great, dog is ok, Liverpool winning 3-0 and a smashing new sim on the way...what could be better!

Oh ok....you must be drunk then, you just keep saying weird stuff.

Do you guys know how I can contact one of the former gennadich team members? I want to modify some features of the IL2SC software and would like to get its source code as well as permission to do so ....

You want the source code of Cliffs of Dover, do I understand right? If yes, forget that straight away. You will not get it. If you want to help moddify cliffs of dover, the only way to go is with team fusion...

No.