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- IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=189)

- - Oleg's dream (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=23729)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss (Post 297153)

You must not know much about old IL2 or the new one. You could damage a cockpit in IL2 almost 10 years ago. You can't even do that in ROF now. ROF's DM flat out sucks ass. You can lawn dart your plane at 300MPH straight into the ground and the fuselage is still intact. I mean LOL. You can aim a gunner directly at a pilot (both planes stationary) and it will take you 4 to 5 bullets to kill someone regardless of where the bullet hits. The only thing ROF has is wings that bend when they break.

IL2COD has easily 10x the details 10x the DM and 10x the content of ROF. And you say ROF has more features? Are you for real? ROF doesn't even simulate the different machine guns or the ballistics for the different weapons. You'd think with only a few different guns, they'd be able to at least do that one? Guess what? Old IL2 even does this. And speaking of features, just check out IL2's FMB compared to the ME. ROF is on it's 3rd year and IL2COD on it's initial release has literally 50 times the amount of objects available to use. Heck IL2's vehicles even all have different serial numbers when you place them. ROF has a grossly limited game engine. That's why the trenches that were actually full in WW1 are completely empty in ROF. Try to fill them up with sparingly low amounts of objects and a mission won't even load in ROF. Now take IL2 or IL2COD and place 1000's of objects and 1000's of planes and it will load. You can't do 1/20th of that with ROF. And anyone that thinks ROF was good on release must not have been an online player. Our squad waited for months for a patch that would even allow you to play the game for more than 10 minutes without the master browser going down, which btw, still goes down! And in it's 3rd year of development, the most people you can have on a single online server (AI included) is around 50 planes because the server crashes or the master browser disconnects. Heck, ROF just introduced engine smoke, a further object distance, and fog during the time of day. This is all stuff that came from IL2 lol.

ROF has a heck of a long way to catch up to the DM and details of 10 year old IL2, let alone IL2COD. Obviously Cliffs isn't perfect and obviously it's being worked on, but to say ROF even holds a candle to it is laughable. ROF is a 1vs1 FPS plane shooter. It's game engine will never simulate flying during the 1st world war. IL2COD/IL246 on the other hand is not limited and can simulate whatever you can possibly imagine in the form of a mission. The newly released career mode is essentially a picture book with some medals to win. If you actually think any of those missions have 1/100th of the stuff going on in the ground of WWI, you better open a history book. Because you definitely won't find them in game.

I'm not disagreeing that IL2COD isn't working properly. It's got a huge amount of bugs that WILL BE fixed. But ROF is still trying to implement things that a 10 year old sim has (old IL2). When it gets to that point, maybe they can try to get some of the details from the new IL2. Until then, to say ROF has anywhere near the features or detail of IL2 is flat out laughable.

Thank you sir. If I had posted that, and believe me I wanted to, the RoF fan boy hit squad would have been in here two posts later to trash the post.

When I was still flying RoF, it was a great sim for flying around and looking at an impressionist post card picture of the French country side. But a combat flight sim it was not. Apparently it still isn't. Such a pity as I really did want to see it become as good as IL2.

Once CloD gets over this premature release it will be the sim to end all sims...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElAurens (Post 297285)

Once CloD gets over this premature release it will be the sim to end all sims...

Damn it I have lost my fire suit, since you started this one I am going to pinch yours ElAurens :-P

Quote:

Originally Posted by timej31 (Post 297250)

I stand corrected. Your hardware issues are no ones issues on this board. Especially not the Devs problem.

So what would you like us to for you? Take up a collection on these forums to buy some hardware for you that will run it?

hardware issues? WTF? Im playin all other sims fine....

Quote:

Thank you sir. If I had posted that, and believe me I wanted to, the RoF fan boy hit squad would have been in here two posts later to trash the post.

Funny, I had the exact same thoughts, great post Bliss, 100 % agreed.

LoL...

Sorry for the troll, it's not intended, but since we are on the ROF topic, I just fired up the new career and about 10 minutes into the first mission the entire game crashed :rolleyes: . Now this career mode is on hold until the next patch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss (Post 297153)

ROF's DM flat out sucks ass.

You must either be joking or just plain ignorant.

RoFs' DM is understated in ways I'll admit but Il-2s' damage model is definitely overstated. Set up a mission in FMB and have a tiny jeep roll into a 4-engine bomber and then tell me how great Il-2s' DM/physics is.

You have to remember that the aircraft in RoF aren't flying petrol bombs like WW2 fighters, they carry a small amount of fuel and are made from wood and canvas. The explosion modelling in RoF takes that into account.

Spontaneous explosions and one-hit wonder kills are for fantasy land. They are things that are exceptional IRL but in the Il-2 world they occur so frequently as to become monotonous.

Another example, taxiing into a building at 3mph in RoF does not cause aircraft to be either launched 80ft into the air or magically explode like it does in 1946.

The physics and DM for RoF eats 1946 for breakfast.

Il-2s' damage model is weak, it raised the standard back in the day but now it is fairly primitive. Take aileron and elevator damage for example, every time these are damaged you lose both surfaces at once and your trim for that control surface. How is this superior exactly? How is constantly losing your pilot to splash-damage any better?

I'll tell you,

It's better for whiners in MP who want to kill everything with one shot from their wonder-cannons is how.

Here's some "realistic" Il-2 DM for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDlWizuJj5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jP3IS0mQOY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yOJwS4qq4w

HSFX 5.0.1s' expert mode improves 1946 out of sight in this respect, anyone still playing 1946 should check it out since it at least it fixes the tissue-paper planes issue as far as combat goes and actually makes the FMs' challenging.

CloDs' DM looks superb but has Oleg put away the nitro-glycerine coating on all objects?

RoF's DM is just plain crude compared to CloD's. In fact the DM in RoF is one of the big reasons (beyond the idiotic business model) that I quit the thing.

The aircraft are crude you git, they have about a quarter of the systems that a 1940's fighter does.

Well, CloD DM is nicely animated but somewhat laughable, if you explode when the wind drifts your tail over a runway light. It is still the same old mechanism as in 1946, just touch an object and explode. And it`s fun how the damaged 2-Mot-AI keeps its station flawlessly and follows every stunt manouver without tailfin, one left elevator, ailron and one engine gone. Ok, the AI has simplefied DM/FM, but would be nice if they would have a DM/FM at all. We should face that our main opponent will be AI, otherwise the 20 online players cannot populate the map and will stay entertained.

Therefore I wouldn´t call CloD DM a masterpiece, it`s nice to look at, but nothing more, but I hope that will change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyBlonde (Post 297895)

The only person here who's ignorant is you. Fly a ROF plane straight into the ground at 300mph and the "wood and canvas" fuselage is still there. It would be shattered into a million pieces in actuality. Also showing videos of IL2 that are from versions 5 or 6 years ago to prove your point, only further proves mine. And your "one shot in a million video" was from a guy flying on easy gunnery settings.

If you've ever seen a warbird come in to fast on a landing and hit the deck, the plane 9 times out of 10 explodes. I don't think I have to post some tragic youtube videos to show this. You simply can not do anything to a ROF plane other than break it's wings off. The fuselage will always be there regardless of what you hit. Nothing in the cockpit can be damaged at all.

The ground objects, building, trees, in IL2 don't break when you hit them. It's always been this way. So considering those objects are basically immovable, when a plane runs into them or an object runs into the plane, it's going to be a critical hit. There is no crumple zones in IL2. And depending on where it hits the plane may very well completely destroy itself. But I don't think that's really much of an argument considering the DM I care about is when I'm actually in the air flying. You can actually kill a pilot in IL2 with one bullet. You can actually cut the elevator cables, rudder cables, and aileron cables in IL2.

Either way it's funny for the ROF fanboys to compare their DM to 10+ year old sim. One day they might get there.

Deja Vu anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLvL...eature=related

Tells me that its not "them" (game developers) that is the problem, "we" are.

Even if bugs/problems is enoying, many need to learn the meaning of patience.

ATTENTION: this is not an attempt at making fun of RoF. Just showing that "we" as a community forget real quick and, seemingly, suffers from multiple personality disorder sometimes.(to often imo)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss (Post 297942)

I doubt the terminal velocity of any WW1 fighter even reaches 300mph but it is true that they don't make a dramatic explosion when they go in. One small flaw there I'll concede but the overall model as it applies to actually flying the plane, rather than one piddling visual effect, is superb.

Also, Il-2 stock, the un-modded version of the game was at its' prime 5 or 6 years ago. It has not progressed at all since then in terms of DM or physics.

Quote:

If you've ever seen a warbird come in to fast on a landing and hit the deck, the plane 9 times out of 10 explodes.

Only if videos you are watching are produced by Steven Spielberg. If the aircraft explodes it's not a landing, an aircraft may explode after a bad landing if the fuel tanks are ruptured but it has to be a very hard landing to do that and most people consider landings that hard to be called crashes.

Quote:

But I don't think that's really much of an argument considering the DM I care about is when I'm actually in the air flying.

Contradict yourself much? Or do you consider nose-diving into the dirt at 300mph "flying" like you consider exploding on impact "landing"?

Quote:

Either way it's funny for the ROF fanboys to compare their DM to 10+ year old sim. One day they might get there.

What is funny is to come here and, rather than seeing the actual aspects of simulation in terms of DM and physics compared in this thread, to see instead the effects of physics and damage on the aircraft themselves when the aircraft compared are as different as chalk and cheese.

Anyway, that aside there are many things that CoD could benefit from if they took a look at RoF and there are many things which RoF benefited from by looking at Il-2.

I'm not here to laud one over the other. I have bought every release from the Il-2 series since the original game and have followed it avidly, despite it's glaring short-comings, because it was the best thing going. I guess that makes me an Il-2 "fanboy" right?

I'm becoming an avid "fanboy" of RoF as well since it has raised the bar once more and I look forward to becoming an avid "fanboy" of CloD when it nudges the bar a little higher.

The reason I'm here is that I want to see Olegs' dream realized but I know that this won't be achieved by pandering to CloDs virtues and ignoring its vices, especially when many of those vices have gone over a decade with nothing but excuses to address them. Creating a simulation is a constant compromise and I want as much as anyone here to see CloD get the balance right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron (Post 297951)

Deja Vu anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLvL...eature=related

Dude seriously.. this vid gets me everytime LMAO

:( Unfortunately i have seen a few aircraft crash and actually only one [P38 Californian Cutie ] burnt and that was after impact ,fuel ignition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron (Post 297951)

Deja Vu anyone?]
Tells me that its not "them" (game developers) that is the problem, "we" are.

Even if bugs/problems is enoying, many need to learn the meaning of patience.

ATTENTION: this is not an attempt at making fun of RoF. Just showing that "we" as a community forget real quick and, seemingly, suffers from multiple personality disorder sometimes.(to often imo)

first of all this is very old...now we are at 1.019 and most of the issues (mentioned in the video are FIXED).....secondly, even with all the flaws in optimisations, ROF was playable at the release FOR MOST FOLKS unlike CLOD (and that is on MID RANGE RIGS!)....graphics are still (talking about landscape) better IMHO...I really dont like neon landscape in IL2 (not to mention porked AA when looking from distance). I too hope CLOD will get fixed sometime...I love sims and genre...and I spent money on this....

FYI v1.2 is from 2002

S!