Lol you guys are getting rusty. :eek:I would hve though those tables wld hve come much before.

Pls if you are serious enough take some time to read the SPit&Blabla.com curves. It does not depict anything serious (especially those ones).

Thx in advance

I am sure you have good intention but if you think that the Spit won the BoB take some time to read the sorties ratio and the kill ratio (it was a galvanizing symbol for the ppl of UK) . Then hev a look at the aggressive campaign fought by the RAF with real MkIIa/b in the late 40/ early 41 period, and come back to us.

The devs just should fix those d@mn FMs of all planes and finish the discussions :)

True, but that would not keep TomcaViP from complaining about the Spitfire. He will not be happy until it is made totally useless.

Lol. Pls be sure that this is not my goal. I do like the spit and hve flown her in sims extensively when we where lucky enough that she was modeled honestly.

I would be please to trade my rusty and smoky Hurri for a Brand new SPit ! ;)

Will shut my mouth as here is so much TC entries lately that I wonder if I am not modded myself !

No mate, read my post again please.

What I am saying is that ALL discussions about compared performance are close to useless. Warplanes were not meant to be balanced and as such you will ALWAYS find people bickering about the in game performance.

Now, what I said was they need to fix the FM if it's flawed (and yes it feels weird but not just on the spit) but that has nothing to do with the core issue here. Which is people complaining about getting their butt set on fire by imbalanced planes.

The only way to fix that issue is to give dogfight servers a way of having pilots fly the same plane against each other. That way they can't blame it on the plane or the FM but only on their skills. This is the only way to solve this ongoing discussion.

And please don't say the spitfire sucked so much after göring's stupid order that the 109s had to fly in formation with bombers e.g. Most opposed that stupidity and many 109s were lost and couldn't do a thing. I don't really care for the numbers to be honest since, and then again, I mentioned this in my post, I already said it depends on so many variables:
-For example the service status of the planes
-combat experience of the pilots
-formation they had to fly in (e.g. line formation for the brits)
-stupid orders they were under, like görings bomber escort insanity
-the fact that the germans had to fly over to the UK and only had about 10minutes fuel for combat
-the fear of getting shot down over enemy territory or the channel
-being rested or not
-being stationed far from home
-having good food or not
-etc.
There are SO many factors that contribute to the war - we shouldn't mix up the results of the war with flying characteristics.

Fact is also that home pilots are:
-rested
-well fed
-have no fear of dieing
-always have a respawn button
-know all the performance stats
-know all the weaknesses of their enemies
-get unlimited training hours
-have perfect equiment at home
-got years to practice tactics
-etc.

We CANNOT simply come up with numbers of the war. We also cannot expect to neglect all the psychological effects the war did that affected the numbers. We can only try to come up with great flight models and let the dog fighters fight on equal footings and adjust co-op scenarios WITHOUT taking them too serious.

It's pointless to try and re-create the war. It will never work, never be balanced, ever. Machine performance wasn't the only thing that decided it. Maybe I'm totally wrong and just a complete tard but that's what I wanted to say :-P in fact I don't give a damn what plane is better if they have a decent FM that I can enjoy. For those who cry about imbalanced planes there won't ever be a real solution. In my opinion at least.

Just make up a server with the proposed planeset and see if ppl will like it or not.

I for my part see two kinds of people writing here in this thread:

- Those who don't want to have the things changed either because they are happy that all planes except the Spit 2a are underpowered. They are in favour of having the Spit 2a everywhere where it is like a 1942 plane in a 1940 year war. My guess is, Madfish, that you belong to this group, or you did not read the thread or you just don't have a clue what the thread is about.

- Those who recognize that the FMs are flawed creating an unhistoric imbalance. Madfish: Take note: unhistoric imbalance. Because in case you might have missed it the thread is not about historic imbalance.

The cause for this thread is because all planes except the Spit 2a are underpowered considering historic values. There is nothing to discuss here.

So just fix the FM to give all planes historic performance and basta.

My disagreement is with the SpitMk1 v The Hurricane as currently modelled. Their relative performce and specs are reversed for the time period, Im in the group above but think it merits discussion.

Leave the Mk2 out by all means but at least have the performance of the remaining Allied fighters suited to their roles and corrected relative to the BFs as currently modelled! In other words - fix the two that are wrong initially.

My disagreements goes: I just want ALL aircraft have their correct historic performance. If this is achieved the relative performance of each plane will be correct automatically. This includes the Hurricanes, the Spit 1, the Spit 1a (that should have CS), the Fiat G50 and the 109s. I don't know about the twin engine planes and the stuka.

Two points here:

1. The performance numbers of most of the aircraft in the sim are simply wrong and need to be fixed. We all can agree on that. (I hope).

2. Historical combat outcomes can never be acheived in combat flight simulation. I have taken part in a couple of online campaigns that were very well crafted to simulate the war in North Africa, and the campaign over New Guinea. Correct plane sets as far as possible, correct bases as far as possible, correct numbers of available types, supply issues, etc... And not one time did the historic outcome from WW2 happen. Why? Because we are human beings and we adapt to the mistakes made in the past. We know what each side did correctly or incorrectly in the real deal, and we will not follow blindly the tactics that led to failure. We are not historic re-inactors. We are competetive and we want to win, regardles of what we say here.

So please stop using how the real campaign over England (or any other theatre) played out as justification for aircraft performance. It has nothing to do with it.