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I'd like to have more challenge too.
http://www.rdox.info/01.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/02.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/8.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/9.jpg http://www.rdox.info/0.jpg |
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1. ASh-82FNV (M-82FNV) erly (first) name ASh-82FN (M-82FN, the name ASh - Shvetsov's aircraft engine appeared later) 2. 1850hp - afterburning (n=2500, Pk=1200+-20), 1530hp - nominal (n=2400, Pk=1000+-10), 1630hp on 1500 m (n=2400, Pk=1000+-10), 1430hp on 4550 m (n=2400, Pk=1000+-10). По данным из "Авиационный мотор АШ-82ФН (описание конструкции)", Государственное Издательство Оборонной Промышленности, Москва 1947, страницы 9,10. http://smages.com/images/ash82fn.jpg 3. there are four La-5 planes with the ASh-82FN engine: type 39, type 41, type 43 (La-5UTI - double place training), type 45 (La-7). Type 39 in parallel planes with M-82F and M-82FN were issued, M-82FN was established on existence. Production M-82FN restrained slow increase in production of equipment of injection. Type 41 (metal longeron) made only at plant No. 21, 89 planes. Tests in НИИ ВВС КА (Scientific Research Institute Air Force) of serial planes: SN: 39210104 "dubler" (type 39, plant № 21 Gorky=Nijniy-Novgorod, 1-series, plane № 4) may 43, nominal: 2670 kg /3305 kg, fuel 332 rg, 530 km/h on 0 m, 590 km/h on 2000 m, 610 km/h on 5800 m SN: 39210109: 2700 kg /3340 kg 580 km/h on 0 m, 630 km/h on 2000 m, 620 km/h on 6100 m SN: 39210495, oct 43: .../3322 kg, 542 km/h on 0 m, 607km/h on 2000 m, 600 km/h on 5000 m SN: 39211257, jan 44: .../3320 kg, 546 km/h on 0 m, 610km/h on 2000 m, 602 km/h on 5000 m SN: 39213050 (M-82F) 2572/3227 kg 551 km/h on 0 m, 579 km/h on 3100m, 590 km/h 6150 m SN: 39210375, june 43 597 km/h on 0 m (afterburning), 641 km/h on 6100 m SN 39210531, oct 43, on 0 m: .../3325 kg, 531 km/h (nominal), 572 km/h (afterburning) SN 39210540, oct 43, on 0 m: .../3340 kg, 540 km/h (nominal), 570 km/h (afterburning) SN 39211525, feb 44, on 0 m: 550 km/h (nominal), 580 km/h (afterburning) afterburning was resolved to height of ~3000 m: the supercharger didn't create necessary pressure |
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Anyway, the performance figures you written are one of the best sources for LaGG-3/5/7 series, but some of them are for prototypes, like the SN: 39210104 "dubler" (current FM is based on this). Meanwhile I also found these test reports, and one of my friends helped me with russian. According to him, the figures we need: SN 37210444, 08.1942 for La-5 SN 39213050, 07-08.1943 for La-5F SN 39210495, 09-10.1943 for La-5FN the others are prototypes or low quality versions, (SN 37212383, way too slow) and should be ignored. Plus, there are useful info about the LaGG-3 series too! http://lib.rus.ec/i/98/230798/pic_71.jpg http://lib.rus.ec/i/98/230798/pic_72.jpg |
My 2 cents
I flew spits .. for long time ... they suffered many changes in FM ... But They feel like the real aircraft The other day.. I flew La 5 FN and the La 7 ...I did not fly Them the last 2 years.. Something is wrong... I think.. I don't know.. |
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about FN - if you about first combat tests, it's not good because, how you can read, these la-5 had good service etc, well, it's was "combat tests" (something like quote about first tests of il-10) - Quote:
if about la-5FN more - what i'm really can't understand at this moment, late series in RL have metal spars or not (i just have little doubts here... mainly, sourses say yes, for f too), and la-5fn (maybe, and f?) in 44 have new prop vish-105 v4 or not (it's + 11 kph)... if yes and yes, normal speed of FN 575-580 in 43 (542+33=575, 10.43 test, and 546+33=579, 1.44 test), in 44 can looks like 585-595 (600 with very good quality) kph at sl... plus, little better other characteristics... and normal weight of la-5fn, it's 3290-3300 or 3300-3350 from some CONTROL tests... so, what we have in game not so simple question, 44 or late 43 (personally for me, and i'm can be wrong here, of course)... and not simple question about time of forsazh (more 5 min or not, and what i posted, it's my opinion based on some docs and just logic)... Quote:
and i'm glad what you love russian planes... like i love spitfires, tempest and all uk-us design scool...:) i don't know what really want more at first, spifire14 and typhoon, or yak-7b and yak-7-37 (well, maybe yaks, because online wars now simulate only soviet-german front and spitfire14 can be here only like something special in may'45)... Quote:
here, mainly, just fun about name of game and status of aircraft il-2 in game, in generally - it's just funny, like cosmetic advertisement with ugly old woman...:) Quote:
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what yaks not have, it's damage of oil cooler... Quote:
and for RAF need high alt. planes, if i not wrong, but p-39 medium alt. fighter (for cover of il-2+yaks at SL, or against bombers at 3000-4000)... and in game at this alt. some p-39 very similar with fw190 1.42 ata or better (and all p-39 in game have wrong fuel load)... anyway, more important for soviet pilots in 42-43 was quality of p-39, radio and other good equipment + main part of plane - it's pilot= normal results... plus service of german aircrafts on east was not so good, i think... Quote:
and apart from high T in cabine, la-7 don't have serious problems in fact, but be used not all 44 (combat tests, after, time for solve of problems of new construction, etc)... and, anyway, for simulation of effect of high T need docs about this (i think, this not for old game, and it was "problem" of all la with FN, mainly, if pilot use forsazh and long time use his and this problem of all high powered aircrafts like tempest etc, even yak-3 have "good" T in cabine sometimes)... and in total, it's can be exaggerated, maybe, in some sense... Quote:
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and for more interested game these servers long time ago do some things, but no normal instruments for this, so, sometimes we fly on f-2 and yak-7 1941 in 43:)... and here DT can help if just do more detailed modelling of balance from real life, i mean, more performances of different series and modifications and this will be very democratic for all players... it's not so hard to create, and we don't need all defects, it's will too good... well, it's what i call "realistic balance" (in fact not only i'm, before and especially now, and if everybody see on development of aviation, all understand this simple thing)... |
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something about this (russian, of course) - http://www.airpages.ru/mt/mot61.shtml... and part of basis, for myth - la-5 (maybe, not for some early la-5 with gargrot) and 7 have oil cooler, blinds after propeller and "zaslonki" on the sides of engine... so, 3 manipulations for engine cooling, and it's can be modelled in game, why not? for other planes too, but here need be careful - i remember when read t-62 manual after ww2 tanks (not simple things too), before play, it's really work with many details and if developer modelled this, it's will be not game... well, what i'm talking, all understand this... and here need to say about ART-41 (автомат регулирования температуры-41), for yaks'44, and strange performances of some yaks'44 with 518 kph at sl, etc - i and some other peoples think, these speeds of planes with a working art-41... normal settings of radiators without art-41 in horisontal flight were - по потоку - it's mean someting like 1/3 from "full open", so, like in game this automat reduced speed of bf 109 (art-41 was copy of german automat, written in books)... or like in RL pilots of spit9 be not very satisfied with automatics for radiators and wanted manual control (if i'm not wrong)... some yaks be old planes, how basis for tests of new features (like yak-9k) etc... well, all sources need to be corrected, more or less... |
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about defects and problems of soviet aircrafts...
little spray of oil, fear of jammed sliding part (lack of emergency reset before 43), bad quality of glass, sometimes, especially in 41-43 and high T in cabine of some aircrafts (la-5fn and 7, yak-9u, il-2) forced pilots fly sometimes with open canopy or without slinding part = no 10-20 km/h of speed, in middle... well, for this DT must create option "open canopy" for soviet fighters + hits in cabine=damage of slinding part + pilot can't bailout without opened cabine + bad quality of glass... it's really can give to us little another, more historically correct performance of soviet aircrafts, but, maybe, i slightly exaggerate or don't know something (maybe, it's all - some mistakes, mainly)... anyway, if do, need to do this very very correctly... and anyway option "open canopy" can help for fast bailout, in game, if if can open your canopy in air (very useful, when you fly with damaged oil cooler, and trying fly to the front line, or fly with dark smoke=hidden fire in engine and you can fast bail out before explosion of engine, etc)... well... for example, some special wishes of pilots, Ворожейкин Арсений Васильевич (photo attached) - Quote:
other quality problem - Quote:
well, about this saying manual for la-5fn too (attached, where have way how resolve this problem for la), and "Как получить наилучшие летные данные на самолете Як с мотором ВК-105ПФ"... and my opinion about this stuff - if do, need to do this very very correctly, and at once for all sides, but mainly it's all not for old game like il-2, and it's very doubtful and for new sims... |
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but for me, personally, your comparison a very strange in total... at first, spits have new FM only in 4.10, BEFORE, realistic FM had all yaks, tempest, all iars, maybe mustang and something more (la-7 have some differences from la-5, like in tests)... so, mainly, "red" allied planes, and no german planes... now, we have "other" FM for fw190 in 4.11, which became only better (i think so, in compare with yaks, for example), and it's all, end... well... and now you think what with las not so nice, and in total you want realistic FM for SOME aircrafts... hmm... what i can say more? i think, you not thinking what you must think... more realistic FM for la? of course, i want it too, but why not bf 109 next, huh? why you not think about - 50 kph for bf 109e with full open radiators, but think about la-5fn, pilots which don't full open radiators in RL? etc... for me, it's strange... well, all these FM, DM, and performances of german aircrafts, AND, very important, time limits of engine... why you don't want talk about this? or want? for someones la-5fn it's prototype, but 19.2 m/s for fw190 a-4 it's normal?... like real g-2 1.3 ata with 3050 kg and 1310hp of nominal power, lol... etc etc etc... well, i want say (and said before about this), PLS, give for soviet aircrafts normal attitude and don't say what you know about them MORE than their researchers (some authors of books) and creators... i don't do this about german, uk or us aircrafts, mainly... cold war is over very long time ago... and, what i want say here all time... well, gaunt1, vk-107 have only 25 hours of resource and can't use combat power, how you think... what you can say, in this context, about db-605 with mw-50 - which resource have this engine? especially, when some users in one topic here, wanted 10 min (minimum) of mw-50, and MORE, without aftereffects in air...:) and what you think about etalon performances of bf 109 with mw-50, and this in 44-45? at second, if we talking about this... really interested for me... or we start, finally, very important common topic like "german fighters and 4.1x"? personally for me, have many questions about this... especially, because i see strange changes in 4.11, compared with 4.09, for german and soviet planes... |
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And BTW, I really dont understand you. We have 100% RELIABLE test reports from NII VVS, that clearly indicate the difference between the performance of prototype and serial production aircraft. Why do you still think that these reports arent correct? Why do you think that the opinions of pilots or mechanics are more believable? Why do you think that current FM is OK, even though it is obviously modeled after the prototypes? In the other thread, (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=32576&page=2) Z1024 thoroughly researched the performance of the different versions of La-7, and you again flooded the forum with pilots or mechanics opinions. I dont want to insult you with this, but I completely agree with him: Quote:
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My 5 cents
Sadly it is not possible to model Klimov's and Shvestov oil spillage staining the windshield of early Lagg and all La series to the point of sometimes even forbidding the use of the gunsight (wich was also of poor quality in early war period), or the VVS standard nitro cellulose glass parts that turned yellowish and blur thus restricting view to the point some pilots prefered to fly with canopy open.
Shvestov engines are also known for both overheating and "supercooling" causing stalls and power failures. Unfortunately it is not possible to model exhaust gas entering the cockpit nor exessive temperature rise in the pit caused by the Shvestov engines that forced pilots to fly canopy back (even on late marks La5FN and La7) despite heavy drag penalty. @Gaunt1 I followed your discussion with 1984 about VVS aircraft performances. I think that all Russian aircraft performance in game are more or less OK, we must remember that Russian designers were at the top, and they did really come up with excellent designs. The aircraft were exactly what was needed tactically and strategically, unlike some other countries (German used high wing loading/high altitude fighter like the Bf109 on the eastern theater for instance). So for me it is not the performances that are problematic, it is how easily these are reached in game and how smooth the controls are, when we know Russian aircraft had no automatic features to help pilots to reach top performance. There was plenty of levers and lot of cockpit work to get performance. Flying Russian aircraft was no sinecure as it is in game, this is certainly the reason why Russia's best pilots also were Allied top scorers. Comparing the conditions and difficulties encountered they sure did an outstanding job. Only the best breed of pilots could get the best out of these excellent but not easy aircraft, in game some of these are rightly called "noob aircraft", and i think this does not give a good picture of VVS and many of the fantastic designs they used. |
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