Fellas, everyone talks about flying high, these FM's dont perform anywhere near they should at 7k, its no fun flying up there at present..

I would like any planes that flew BoB in the planeset, what i dont want is Any AC that has a massive advantage over the other wether it would be Blue or Red..

forget about whiners and flyboys or whatever the rubbish forum language is everyone uses, if the 109 had that much of an advantage then all the Red pilots would be complaining...on that note a lot of Red pilots are complaining about the Spit2 just like the Blue pilots..

The servers have changed thats for sure, its nearly always one sided now..

Im not sure people like flying ages in the current maps that dont really have missions to get into a dogfight (Spit2) so they just fly Blue, maybe the bases should be put back a bit on both sides to deter vulchers, get it back to Mk1's and Hurris and get rid of that Mk2!... what happening now isnt working..

I don't give a hoot what any historian thinks. I care what pilots who fought have said from their accounts. I have lost count of the number of well known pilots who specifically state how they would make a steep climbing turn and watch the 109 stall out. Gunther Rall even said it himself, that you simply couldn't follow them if they made that move. But tbh you've discounted yourself in this discussion already by telling us that the Hurricane Rotol and 109 have good flight models.

I hve learn (the hard way) one thing with the time : the less options you hve, the more aggressively you act.

Draw your own conclusion and stop the insults. Thx in advance

Hi. The memories from an technical history viewpoint unfortunately inaccurate sources. Subjective, and unknown circumstances of the situations. I read on more test results, that 5% the measurement margin of error. It is very much. Imagine how large an the margin of error, if they give an opinion based on feelings only? A couple of counterexamples that what you wrote:

"Me 109 E:
"When put into a full throttle climb at low air speeds, the airplane climbed at a very steep angle, and our fighters used to have difficulty in keeping their sights on the enemy even when at such a height that their rates of climb were comparible. This steep climb at low air speed was one of the standard evasion maneuvres used by the German pilots."
- RAF Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) Farnborough handling trials,Bf.109E Wn: 1304. M.B. Morgan and R. Smelt of the RAE, 1944.
edit: The rear airplane is in a disadvantage always. It would be necessary to pull the airplane above a critical AoA to be able to shoot. If he try, he will stall. This is an old, well-known manoeuvre anyway. Works with identical machines in 1v1 combat too. In fact, does not mean it altogether that the first plane is better

Me 109 E:
"In personally facing the RAF in the air over the Dunkirk encirclement, I found that the Bf 109 E was faster, possessed a higher rate of climb, but was somewhat less manouverable than the RAF fighters."
- Herbert Kaiser, German fighter ace. 68 victories. Source:The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes, page 470.

Me 109 E-4:
"I took a performance climb at 1,15 ATA and 2300 RPM (30 minute limit). A climb speed of 250 kph gave an average rate of climb of 2145 ft/min. Bearing in mind the maximum boost limit of 1,35 ATA the "all out" climb must be impressive."
- Charlie Brown, RAF Flying Instructor, test flight of restored Me 109 E-4 WN 3579. Source: Warbirds Journal issue 50.

source: "Climbing in combat" part of the "Messerschmitt 109 - myths, facts and the view from the cockpit" webpage

Mate even without all this documentation...If we are wrong now with the FM's here in CloD then every ww2 sim Ive ever played had it wrong too which is highly unlikely

Jaaaammmmzzz

Don't give us the stick to be beaten !!!

The Spit has been porked since long (CFS ?). But not in the way those guys says.... In the other direction : fantasy, mystification (did I say Spitification ?), complaisance : the ride to outfight everything without any effort (even the hard thing to swivel your head bckward to get a look of what's going on there has been taken away with laaarge mirror and tiny rear fuselage).

Before those time, no one wld hve given a pony or a Fw for Spit... Funny isn't it?

Frankly it's sad to see such poor lobbying on such a mythical [no "S" !!!] ride.

~S~ TC

No offence m8 but i have no clue what any of that means apart from the rear visibility bit

Just flew online and bounced a spit IIa. I shot away the complete right elevator. Even in this condition, it could easily outturn in a vert fight my E4... :grin:

Do you decide how authentic an original report is based on the programming of a game? Should happen reverse for this in a normal case??? I do not dare to ask it, which simulators you thought of... :grin:

I did not say that the Spitfire aircraft is worse than the 109. What I have written to the contemporary memoir should be treated with caution. I maintain my assertion that the pilots' reports are inaccurate. There are many reasons why the performance of their machines being estimated incorrectly. If he wins, he feels it is likely that his plane was better. Later, you will be reading this everywhere. If he loses ... Well, he does not write books. The German pilot who survived the fighting, wrote the same thing like the English, but from his own standpoint. Now who is right?

If someone makes a simulator, the most accurate documentations the various test reports and manuals. This must be the primary source. If they are shaken some legends... that not the fault of the facts ;)

I read earlier an interview with Kozhedub, it is an interesting detail:
- Reporter: What do you consider to have been the best fighter airplane–regardless of nationality–of World War II?
- Kozhedub: The La-7. I hope you understand why.

...And Oleg made it! \o/
(Here is the whole interview)

Lol, I know what your trying to say but your miles away from what I mean..

You've just stated it yourself, we can only go by what we read, the Devs can only go by what Data they have as every bit of info wrote by pilots is like you've said a bit biased..

Every ww2 Sim I have played, cfs3,ww2ol,il2 and now this have a 109 & spit...now every developer has modelled the spit to turn better and retain 'E' better.. the 109 to dive better and climb better etc etc

That is my point, regardless on what we think, it's been like this since ww2 sims have graced us with their presence yes?

I don't know what's right, who's right, what's accurate and what's false... I go by what I see have read myself and what sim developers have implemented into the games I've played..those basic strengths and weaknesses have always been the same..

So if for some reason now were saying the spit was a better in the dive, the climb and the turn...oh and top speed too then all those diff Devs had it wrong then?

That was all I meant by my comment, thought that was obvious too :)