Actually so I don't end up losing my rag and start chucking my dummy out the pram were leave it there..

If I really need to provide a nice graph and different alts n speeds obtained to prove the spit2 and hurri can go way higher than the emile in game now its best I bail now

getting realistic mean sometimes spoiling all the fun

playing tnb planes against bnz planes is absolutly boring if i wanted realism i would get a paraglide and risk my neck im just after the fun

you all forget the biggest porking a blue side pilot has to deal with: the extremely limited visibility of this game engine.

it's easy to say "just fly at 5k and do BnZs" but actually flying at 5k means you see nothing beyond 2k underneath you.. so, do BnZs on.. what?!! thin air, and just a thin hope there's something underneath you?

I'm constantly flying at 4-5k, but the game is simply empty in there. the reds won't climb up there, unless they are forced too. and that can only be done by having bomber flights and make them primary target for mission's success.

it's even worse for bombers, and especially for the stuka.

also, the second biggest porking comes from server's missions. air war is simple: bombers flew to blow targets, fighters were trying to prevent them doing that, while the bombers' escorts were trying to protect them. everything else comes from this.

as long as missions don't have massive blue bombers formations trying to blast red island's from the face of the earth, and code for organizing the escorts/attackers, we won't have historical combat encounters on these servers, but just an elevated form of the old airquake..

To be honest I don't have this problem. I did in the beginning (readjusting from old Il-2) but the longer I played, the less difficult it was. It is possible to spot contacts from 4-5k. It's not easy but I don't think it is supposed to be.

From my experience on atag for example, there is quite a few red players at 20k.

True...

Robo I don't know what your doing to be able to spot aircraft 4,5k underneath you which is what were saying and there isn't quite a few reds flying at high altitude at any one time, no way and I fly primetime European

And regardless no point flying high n fast a solid trate of the 109 n 190 as spits n hurris can now fly considerably higher?

I don't know, I just see contacts down below. Not sure if as low as 4,5km underneath but certainly more than 2 km. Often the con is too low to bother. Easier over water than over the land of course, but possible.

I don't know I always meet quite a few friendly contacts at alt.

That is true and a massive issue of this sim imho, unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that, they won't touch the FMs until the sequel. I haven't tested the new patch yet, what is the top ceiling of the 109 - still 7,4km? :(

We can ask ATAG devs to program it into a mission e.g. as described here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...or-ATAG-server
(allow fighter groups to spawn AI bombers they will escort like in old coops).

Ataros,

I think that now that we have the final version of the game and no more changes are coming, we can really start thinking about how the get the max from the game.

As we know, is impossible to make everybody happy but we'll keep trying.
It will not happen overnight though :)

Well, if it s really true that allies can fly up to above 9k height and germans are stuck at 7.4k the game is done for me. No matter how good the rest is. Gamebreaker..

Winger

EDIT: Hmm. cant find where i read that. Can anyone confirm any red plane being able to go as high als 9000+ meters?

It seems the Spitfire IIA is not affected by the Merlin III engine cutout bug which keeps the Spit IA's and Hurricanes lower. It can apparently climb to 29,000 ft.

However, the fix is simple: Just ban the Spit IIA on the servers till there is another patch... if that ever happens. Historically there weren't a lot of IIA's anyway. This was generally done in the first versions of the game anyway because the IIA was dominant then. (funny how there was no banning of the E-4 when the 109's were totally dominant...but that's another story ;) )

Removing the Spit IIA would put the balance in favour of the Germans up high as it would still mean the Spit IA 100 octane is crippled above 12,000 ft, and is effectively limited to 23,500 ft, the 109's have a definite advantage there, with the Hurricane IA 100 octane not being affected as badly.

The other thing the servers need to do is lower the height of the Bomber raids. They should be coming in at 12,000 ft so Red side is not completely porked when they are intercepting.

On the OP's comments:

I flew a 109E3 and E4 yesterday, and they are far from being porked, and I know for a fact their essential FM's have not been changed at all since the beginning of the Release candidate betas.

The 109 still climbs better than the Spit IA's and Hurricanes at higher alts, easily getting up to altitudes these red planes are struggling with their engine bug, and it also dives much better, and maneuvers at high speed better. So with alt, it can exit any combat it wants. It has more powerful guns, rolls better and can climb at steeper angles at lower speeds for zoom maneuvers. It is more than capable of holding its own in the hands of a decent pilot who knows how to boom and zoom and keep an alt advantage. On the other hand, if you dive down to the deck and get into turnfights, you will die, unless your opponent is a noob.